Experts testify Lasley believed parents hid truth from him

Two psychologists testified Wednesday that Gordon Lasley Jr. told them he believed his parents were responsible for giving him AIDS and syphilis, and that he was 'doomed” by 'bad medicine” or a 'hex.”

Arthur Konar, a Des Moines clinical and neurological psychologist, testified based on test results he performed in March, about a month after the killing Feb. 5, Lasley suffered from paranoid schizophrenia.

Dewey Ertz, a South Dakota psychologist, testified Lasley has a delusional disorder and he had a brief psychotic episode that night. He believed he had a disease which he didn't, he thought it was his parents' fault, and he acted upon that belief.

Lasley is charged with two counts of first-degree murder. According to testimony, Lasley used a 3-foot homemade machete to stab and cut Gordon Lasley Sr. and Kim Lasley in their home Feb. 5 on the Meskwaki Settlement in Tama.

Lasley isn't disputing he killed his parents, but is claiming insanity at the time of the offense.

The trial started Monday and the defense will continue its case 9 a.m. Thursday in U.S. District Court. The trial may wrap up next week.

Lasley told Konar he tried to talk with his mother about his concerns that night, Konar said. Their conversation became heated, so he wanted to talk to his father but she attempted to discourage him.

Lasley displayed no emotion during the testimony about his mental health. He hasn't throughout the trial.

Konar said Lasley couldn't relate to him the actual killings. Lasley said he couldn't remember.

Ertz, who evaluated Lasley in July, said Lasley gave more details of the actual assaults. Lasley was 'fearful and panicked” about his perceived medical condition. Ertz said this was consistent with a delusional or psychotic process.

Lasley then went to awake his father, who was sleeping on the sofa, and his mother tried to stop him. Lasley took that as keeping him from the truth.

Ertz said Lasley started to 'shiver” as if he was cold because he was 'reliving” this as he told him details from his jail cell in Tama County.

Lasley said he yelled at his parents to tell the truth and then picked up the machete, which was his father's, and started swinging it around, breaking things in an attempt to scare them, Ertz said.

Konar said Lasley told him he was hearing voices that told him he would be healed of the diseases if he killed them.

Lasley told Ertz he was unable to control his actions at this point. He went after his father but his mother got in the way. His father tried to take it away and this is when he 'poked” his father. His mother was close by but he didn't remember stabbing his mother.

Ertz said Lasley remembered his 5-year-old daughter was downstairs and he wanted to be near her to 'bring him back to reality.” Lasley got his daughter and told her he was sorry for being mean in the past and asked her if she was afraid to die. He told her to 'go to the light.” Lasley told Ertz he planned to kill his daughter and himself.

Lasley then started yelling and pacing, which helped him 'come back to reality,” he told Ertz, and then called his girlfriend and told her what happened.

Konar was asked if Lasley could fake the symptoms or lie on the tests but he said the tests are made to prevent it. The questions aren't obvious and an average person couldn't cheat. When he interviewed Lasley, he would go between having a flat affect, which is no emotion, to sobbing for 10 minutes, and then the 'shield” would go back up and there would be no emotion. Konar looked for inconsistencies in his behavior and he couldn't find any.

Ertz said Lasley also had PTSD from killing his parents.

On cross examination, prosecutors attacked both psychologists on their diagnoses and their qualifications. They pointed out both psychologists almost exclusively testify for the defense, both had no published articles and original research on mental illnesses they testified about, and they didn't review all records in making evaluations.

Assistant U.S. Attorney C.J. Williams pointed out that Ertz relied on the truthfulness of Lasley. 'Don't people lie to psychologists?”

Ertz said they could.

The only report of Lasley having delusions is Lasley, Williams said. If Lasley thinks he has symptoms of AIDS and syphilis, 'it might not be a delusion - couldn't it be ignorance” or lack of knowledge about disease, he said.

Ertz admitted it could.

Williams said a sign of psychosis is dysphoria, which is 'feeling blue” or mild depression, so couldn't that just be from the PTSD.

Ertz admitted it could.